FNV MHSAA Week 2 Playoff Scores

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• Since this has become such a debate with private verses public.
  Aka recruiting verses school of choice.
  Here's the results for the upcoming quarterfinals match ups.
  Division 1
  1 private to 7 public
  Division 2
  2 private to 6 public
  Division 3
  0 private to 8 public
  Division 4
  2 private to 6 public
  Division 5
  4 private to 4 public
  Division 6
  2 private to 6 public
  Division 7
  1 private to 7 public
  Division 8
  2 private to 6 public
  So total
  14 private to 50 public

  • It’s funny you say “school of choice”. I know this varies in region vs region but for a real example, a family we know took 4 years, yes 4 to be released from their district (no one wants to give up their money). It’s simply not as easy as what you are trying to make it out to be defending the private schools in large population machines. Also… JLC has a heavy recruiting program funded by alum.. There really is no good argument against separate playoffs for public vs private.

    • I’d love to hear more about the Lumen Christi recruiting program. Please and thank you.

    • I only used those phrases because that's how it's talked about here.
      You bring up a great point, about needing to be released from one's current district.
      Convincing ones school to release a student, to attend another school, is hard enough.
      Think about telling a parent, you now have to pay thousands in tuition, get a catholic faith based education, attend church service during school, students required to obtain service hours from helping out your community, parents required to obtain service hours or its added on to tuition costs, not being able to have cellphones during teaching hours at school, have a strict dress code,plus alot more I won't bore you with.
      We don't complain about these sacrifices.
      We embrace them.
      Success has nothing to do with finding the best athletes. It's having young men and women fighting for what they believe in. Believing in each other.
      You make it sound like it's so easy to just attend private school. Win games, go to Ford Field.
      Private school kids have to work just as hard as public school kids.
      Or you can just lie about your address to attend your desired public school.
      What choice do you think is easier?

      • Oh come on, that's just silly. "success has nothing to do with finding the best athletes.." Well in that case lets scrap the whole division thing and let it be a free for all because apparently there is no advantage for better athletes, just "who wants it more" lol

        And your example is also off. Yes you can attend a private school from anywhere, and no, it is very difficult to use "school of choice" to transfer.

        Yes, if you can make the JLC team, you will go to FF, yes, it really is that easy! Be an all star, find an alum to get sponsored, and go to JLC.

        SMCC is too much of a hit or miss program. But.. In the future, if they can string together multiple years of FF, then what Monroe/Dundee/Jefferson, etc. kid wouldn't want to leave their losing public team and play at FF? Easy peasy. Then the program becomes self propagating as the wins stack up. See?

        Every time this is brought up we hear the same "oh the kids worked so hard" Of course they did and no one is saying they didn't. But to ignore the huge advantage they have is only so you can say it didn't exist and pretend they got to where they did on work and skill alone. I get it, you don't want to hear certain truths. But, these are indeed truths and statistically proven. Which is why the movement to separate private vs public is growing quickly..

• To follow my previous comment.. after digging into the data.. private schools (14%) of schools account for well over 50% of state titles across the board. Also.. there is a rather large movement in Michigan to get them in their own playoffs vs just moving divisions. Look it up if anyone wants to sign the petition. But again.. this really has nothing to do with SMCC. The teams that skew everything are private within a large population like JLC, Grand Rapids, etc who can basically put together an all star team from large surrounding cities and play at FF after winning D6/D7 schools.

  • Try school of choice…that’s the recruitment
    Bellville and Riverview have maybe 20-25% of their teams from their school district. Many others very similar
    School of choice changes the game on the public side much more than the private. Some benefit some don’t

    • This season, residents accounted for about 90 percent of our starters and they were our best players. What a team we'd have been had we not had school of choice this year. The gravy game of the D5 playoffs would have been nice until Notre Dame arrived.

  • What is the optimal percentage of state titles that a private school should win vs. a public school? I’d like to hear your thoughts. If you think 50% it too high then what should it be? 36.8%? Please explain further.

    • Statistical inference would suggest that private schools should have a likely chance of winning a state championship equal to the percentage of private schools to all competition qualified schools. If what the poster suggested is true, then the general idea should be that they win state titles about 14% of the time. Since they win over 3 times that amount(over 50%), there’s could be some sort of correlation as to why they win more titles.. is it access to funding via tuition or donors? Recruiting? Something else? Who knows.

      • Yes you are exactly correct. 14% winning and approx 50% of states is obviously an unfair advantage. You would assume they would win 14% of the states as you correctly pointed out. Now.. I'm well aware that schools have better athletic programs, so lets look at that modifier.. Even at the most extreme, for example, double. Lets say that a private schools coaching is 2x better than average schools. The players can run 2x faster, can lift 2x more weight, have 2x more skill than average. This is not even a real scenario, but lets use it. That would translate into 2x more state titles than average, so approx 26%.. we are currently at 50%!!! so even doubling all the skill, coaching, athletes, is still waaaay off what they are actually winning. It all comes down to recruitment + ease of sending a player to a winning program vs their current losing public program. It needs to change.

• WHAAAAAAAAA! We've heard it ALL before. Suck it up, butter cups. Everyone has good years and bad years. Some more than others. Anyone can beat anyone on any given Friday night. Get over yourselves. Excuses are like sphincters. Everybody has them.

• I have to admit, this CC/Clinton game sounds like it has the makings of a heated rivalry. You guys should continue scheduling for sure. Maybe find a larger place to play if that many people are going to show.

• To the parent who posted the comment regarding recruiting. 🙄 Which I did not approve. Because it is just a terrible excuse.

  Clinton knocked SMCC out of the playoffs in 2015 and 2023. Did you hear any SMCC folks crying recruiting?

  Did you cry recruiting when you lost to Ithaca at FF twice? Montague at FF? Michigan Center? Hudson? Nothing said when you lose to a public school. But when it’s a Catholic school. Here come the excuses. And the crying. And the whining.

  It’s low hanging fruit. But in 99% of the cases around the state, it’s just flat out wrong. And quite frankly, disrespecting.

  Losers make excuses
  -Lou Holtz

  • Gary, would SMCC allow a student to enroll who was below average academically and athletically and no desire to play sports? If the same kid lives within the established boundaries of a public school, it is illegal for that public school to deny that kid enrollment. Private schools can pick and choose who they let in.

    • LOL YES they would and have! Those students are there right now! This has been said several times - SMCC does not have an “accepted” or “denied” policy. They don’t require a certain level of anything and are happy to have students come to the school. They have staff to work with students with disabilities and have an inclusion program.

    • That argument is poor.
      Look at it in a business stand point. If a family is willing to pay for the education, and you have a small student population, why would you (the school) reject someone? It makes no sense, because that is actively hurting your faculty/staff and hindering building maintenance/future projects.
      All in all, cc doesn’t reject kids because they don’t play sports. The only case you can make is academic performance, and to counter that cc actively looks for each kid to succeed (do all public schools do that?) and if they are struggling cc will go out and help said child, because again if you kick kids out that only hurts your PR by word of mouth. (the main way they “recruit”)

    • Of course they would.

      Many misconceptions out there. “Picking and choosing” is certainly one.

  • So I guess the main difference is when you got to d6 d7 d8 is when there are 100-400 kids in your school at a public school you have 50% of the kids that are troubled and probably will struggle graduating let alone go to college. There are many kids in public school that are in school because they have to and have no intentions to take it past highschool. Then you go to a school like cc or lumen where it’s 300 kids that pay to go to school and are there for a reason. Which that reason is to get great education and be great at athletics, (which I am all for) but it’s just hard as a public school to have a different pool of kids to choose from. If I am wrong here please correct me. This is just how I see it. Recruiting isn’t the issue, it’s just the pool of kids that are in the school.

    • Interesting thoughts. I'll take it further. I know for a fact that student population sports particpation by school has been brought up to the MHSAA. It doesn't mean anything other than they know its a potential issue. Case in point: Your average public school has anywhere from 40 to 60% particpation rate from students. That % is higher in smaller schools and lower in bigger schools. Parochial or private schools have % numbers anywhere from 75-95% of their student population in athletics. Opposite of that is schools with
      low socio-economic students, having numbers anywhere from 15-30 % particpation.

      • Example, and not to knock Monroe.
        Monroe High school has maybe 200 senior boys and how many play football ?
        Maybe 10-12?
        How many times has SMCC been to FF?
        How many has Monroe High been there?
        Do you really think SMCC coaches are that much better?
        Again, Gary, there is a big difference.

        • Yes, SMCC is that much better coaching wise and probably always has been. Monroe’s small team reflects its poor football success. Kids these days don’t want to play for a team that will win 2-3 games a year and get blown out every game. I’ve seen it at other big schools as well. I’m sure some Monroe kids who want to win at football go to SMCC and do you blame them? Monroe doesn’t go to FF because at Monroe, football isn’t a high priority to the students or the school. You have to run an exceptional program to have that level of success. Those players at CC really worked hard in the offseason seeing how much they improved from last year. They the example of what a run to FF takes.

        • The only argument I have is why do other states around us have a system causing private schools to bump up divisions in sports? If there was absolutely 0 advantage in private schools then this would never be the case. If you have only been part of a private school you will not understand the feeling of playing, coaching, being a part of or rooting for a public school and see lumen or certain private schools walk out on the field. Everyone understands there is a difference in private vs public and there is no denying it.

        • Ask Chris if he wanted JLC moved up to D6.

          Moving up private schools just because, is utter nonsense. And keeps many private schools from being remotely competitive.

        • I agree.

          Now we are picking D1 programs who are not very good at the moment, and comparing them to a D7 top tier program.

          Staying in the same division, Why not choose Ithaca, Pewamo, Menominee… all teams who have been to FF more than SMCC? Oh wait, those are public schools.

          I’ll go one further. Why not choose Rockford? A top tier D1 program and compare them to Bishop Foley. A low tier D7 Catholic school? I know the answer.

    • 50 senior boys in the school. 8 play football. And SMCC doesn’t cut anyone. So 42 have no intention on playing football. The run CC or bowl or whatever. They may not play any sport. Not a great arguement.

      You only hear this sort of stuff when SMCC wins. When they go 6-5, nobody says a word. Don’t you find that odd?

      Where was this talk a year ago, when Clinton knocked SMCC out of the playoffs?

      Edit: In regards to Clinton. They were very young this year. They will be back in full force next year. Already looking forward to week 1 at the friendly confines.

      • Just the idea that SMCC gets to FF that many times is part of he testimony.
        All schools are pushing for students public and private.
        The main reason?
        Money, either from the state or pr or the church, etc.
        Because without the money.
        There is no school.
        The big difference is Catholic and private schools can pick and choose the quality of kids, public schools can not.
        So, please give it up Gary, there is a difference.
        Good luck Falcons, they won’t need it.
        Good luck Rams, they will.

        • Honestly, it’s not as if they’ve been some juggernaut. They do probably have a few more football players than some average public school D7 but they haven’t exactly dominated their own conference. SMCC has a great team this year, but they weren’t all that this past few years. That scenario can happen at any good football program which they are. I get more than anything that defeat is a bitter pill to swallow. You have no clue if you’re calling that recruits. (No offense CC) There is no comparison between the lines of an SMCC and a Rouge or Belleville, and even those teams do get beat. SMCC just has the better team this year and made fewer mistakes and the credit should go to them for the victory.

        • Many of you don’t know the financial issues at many private schools. SMCC does not turn any student away. They don’t pick or choose. They don’t interview students before they decide if they can go there like you might hear of from other large private schools. You don’t have to have a certain GPA to get in SMCC and you aren’t “accepted” or “denied” like one thinks happens.

        • Hmmm….i used to coach at a public HL school. With the school of choice option, almost every one of our top players came from the neighboring school district. If those players had gone to their home school district that program would’ve had a lot more success during those years.

          Also, how many people know that one of the programs that CC is most proud of is the one that admits students with disabilities such as Down Syndrome? There are a lot of students who are not academic all-stars (mine included) but are supported and encouraged to reach their highest potential, whatever their GPA.

          Lastly, top tier collegiate teams and JUCOs loaded with talent are often comprised of players lacking high academic achievement while the Ivys and service academies are loaded with superior academic performers yet are less than impressive on the football field.

        • Not going to get into the discussion on “quality of child”. Which seems where some are taking this. If that is your argument, so be it.

          Recruiting? Go see Belleville. Or Rouge. And many other teams. Those still stuck on the recruiting thing, go see what those teams look like. Then come watch a HL game. Tell me what you see.

      • Wow, 8, that's impressive. They're about equal to the Pirates in Senior numbers.

  • Gary,
    Well said. There is very very little recruiting once the kids hit high school. All the recruiting happens in middle school and that is legal and happens in every public school and private school. Thank you school of choice.
    I just want CC to keep grinding and win the state championship. They are that good!!! Good luck the rest of the way.

• Congratulations to all the teams covered on this blog who played last night! Even if you lost- the experience alone for the underclassmen is invaluable. The extra practices, learning experiences, film study, weight room, time with your coaches will make them better players and teams in the future. They don’t have a TWO YEAR PLAN- they have an every season plan! They are in “The Grind” phase of the post-season. Keep grinding Rams and Falcons… still a long ways to go but best of luck and more importantly - best experiences! It’s great to see great TEAMS and coaching staffs play on…

• It was very uncharacteristic of SMCC to get the penalties they did tonight. However if you were at the game, Coach Kipf called a timeout and actually addressed his whole team after the 2nd personal foul. Clinton scored twice on SMCC’s sophomore call ups. The offense looked great tonight, special teams was solid as usual, and when the #1 defense was on the field, Clinton struggled. The game left us with alot of things to work on. Go Falcons!

• Where’s Romulus and AA GR?

• "Rouge had good losses but not sure if they have a good win."
  Well hope that is good enough!

  • Too many injuries for us this year to win that ball game and that's a shame because if there ever was a year, this was it. I think, if we only could have had the team out there that began the season. That fumble, and that 50 yards in penalties when we had you guys stopped on that first drive put the nail in our coffin because that was a tight ball game. I didn't think it was a terrible win for you guys. That extra point thought, that was pretty hilarious. I thought you were on a mission to beat us in penalty yards too. You did what made sense and used that size to pound our tiny defense into submission and eat the clock. If we had had another two minutes to get down the field at the end, we may have won, but we had to throw the ball and throwing the ball really hasn't worked for this team since the FR game. Good luck the rest of the way to the Panthers.

    • Yes it was a good game. We have a healthy respect for Riverview. The way they play, the things they do are hard to prepare for. We played 2 teams this year that ran similar offenses so that helped a little. Our starting RB and one of our better receivers have been gone since the second game of season so I feel you on the injuries. Our kicker who has hit from 38 had the worst game ever. Still was a good game. Rouge has been learning to not be high powered but how to grind out games this year. Hope it continues.

      • Well I guess that explains how the panthers were so good at stopping it. You just had to slow it down and it worked out on that last drive because we just didn't have the time. We needed at least five and a half minutes and even that was cutting it close. Those are some big boys on that team. I hate saying this, but you guys do good in a power offense. With that size, it makes plenty of sense. We needed our injured big guy on that D line to slow that down.

• Cc zero class 4 personal foul penalties in the first half along with coach getting flagged.. Keep it classy!

  • It was certainly out of character for SMCC to commit dumb penalties and they paid for it. Speaking of classy…how about all those recent news headlines? How about the Clinton fan repeatedly yelling “Hail Mary” in a derogatory way at the CC student section in the 4th quarter? How about the 30 or so Clinton students being booted out of the end zones by the refs and then trying to go into the CC stands before being stopped by CC staff?

  • Not true at all, and I am not even a CC fan.

  • That is NOT what happened! And I am not even a CC fan!!!

  • Coach didn’t get flagged. It was because of a player on the sidelines. Three personal fouls, not 4. Yep, still not the SMCC way.

    You can be ASSURED it was taken care of on the sidelines, at half and will be at practice. If you were at the game you saw the coaches loud and clear taking care of it during the game. Make sure you report that too

  • The coach did not get flagged, it was a kid on the sideline

    • If a player pretty much looked at the ref the wrong way they would get a penalty

      • Sounds like our game against FR, lol.

  • It was very disturbing.
    But it was a very hostile environment with Clinton bringing 5,000 fans.
    No parking.
    No seats.

    • It wasn't even hostile at all! Cliton didn't even have many people there, and it wasn't even out of control. Did you see what I did? Were you even at the same game?

      • You must not follow the blog.
        Maybe to busy being a coach.
        It was a response to a previous hater that claimed Clinton would destroy SMCC.