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• This goes with what cc is benefiting from...look at whitefords playoff points week by week on snooze2you...by far biggest jump in points they have is last week beating loy norrix because they have 1700 kids...Whiteford beat them by 60, a team without a winning season in 25 years, without a doubt the worst team they have played but big school so its better than if they beat a good team closer to their size...basing on enrollment at all is a joke, big don't mean good and little don't mean bad

  • Gary and team
    Why r you scared to post my comments

    • Huh?

  • Size of school is VERY important. I really cannot believe I am having to explain this.

    It's the only variable that cannot be controlled by the institution to a degree. All the others can be controlled(coach-system-participation).

    #1 team in D1 would beat the #1 team in D8 by 100. Why? Because they have a much larger pool to choose from. Not because they have a better coach or better playbook, only because of enrollment. You can use the Whiteford-Loy game as an example, but that is the #1 team in D8 vs the worst program in the state of Michigan. Whiteford has great participation, while Loy does not. I would wager that Loy sought out Whiteford and not the other way around. Average D8 vs Average D1, D1 wins every single time. Thanks to enrolment.

    Everything being equal, give me the school with 2,000 kids and you take the school with 200. I will win 99.9% of the time, only because of enrollment.
    Your statement is just flat out wrong. Tremendously so!

    They have divisions in football based on enrolment alone for a reason. It would be unfair for a school with a low enrolment to compete with a school with a large one. Pretty simple stuff really.
    You brought up CC. SMCC has to have a team that can get to Ford Field in D7, in order to win the Huron League. BECAUSE of the enrollment difference alone between them and teams such as Riverview. History shows this.

    I have to ask. What team do you support? Are they being affected adversely by the current system? If not, why complain? If so, I can show you exactly why. I bet I wont get an answer to this.

    • Summerfid but that's not the point

      I understand that on most occasions the bigger school is better when u go from d1 to d8 duh, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying basing everything so heavily on enrollment where that's the system it doesn't work. There's a lot of bad teams in bad leagues with a lot of kids that play bad football and get some wins. If you play one of them and win u get rewarded more than playing a good school from a smaller league who'd mop the floor with the bigger school. This explains it

      Beat an 0-9 loy norrix you'll get 60 total points from them at seasons end

      Beat a 6 win Ida team you'll get 64 so more but just a little for a 10x tougher game

      Beat whiteford for their only loss on the season before they go win a state title you'll get 49, oh and whiteford just crushed Ida the week before too but still less points

      Lose to undefeated Belleville by 1 on a last second 50 yard hail Mary you'll get 54 or you lose 88-0 you'll get 54 same same no difference.

      So your best choice is to play a middling team from a middle division and win, then a big school that sucks but you'll get the win, then a loss to a big school by a million or not bc being competitive doesn't matter, then beating a state champion
      It's illogical to put in 2-7 teams, if you can't win in the league bc of size then leave and play teams your size, if you can then stay and don't think 2-7 is deserving bc most years ur 7-2. It needs to be tuned up, it's broke.

      • You said in your original comment, "basing on enrollment at all is a joke"
        So my response was geared toward that statement. Based on your comment, I have to believe you dont want school size factored in at all... which is absurd.

        You are choosing the most extreme cases to support your claim.
        Things must be based on averages. The mean. Not the potential volatility of it all.
        What happens in most cases is what you should take into account.

        Loy is a D1 team, a D1 team would get dropped in the playoff rankings for beating them.
        You have to look at things from that perspective, not the very odd one you chose.

        In most every case, A D8 team will not beat a D1 team. Just remember that.
        How many D8 teams are playing D1 teams? Whiteford might be the only one. In the usual case, a D1 team would NEVER play a D8 and likewise the other way.

        Your point about margin of victory, I can get behind. That is NOT factored in. I think it should be.
        Maybe it will one day.

        • I know my points were the extremes but it's just to show what's wrong. If a team like CC where they're the smallest in the league scheduled two d1 schools, somehow they found them and they accepted and lost both games I think it'd be possible for them to make the playoffs at 0-9...again extreme but shows what's wrong. There has to be something that playing Chelsea competitively and close is better than beating up on Ypsilanti. Getting equal points for wins and losses by opponents whether u win or lose to them is wrong. Getting points at all for losing by 60 and being noncompetitive is wrong. Margin of defeat should matter, maybe not margin of victory so you dont have teams rolling up 100 point wins on bad teams in their league.

        • propose something.

          I think you should be deducted 0.10 points for every 10 points you lose by.
          So if you are within 10(competitive) you get no deductions. If you lose by 40, you lose 0.40.

          Maybe something like this will be added in.

          The problem with that is, it can promote running up the score.

          I'll end with this. There is NO perfect system. Flaws in everything.. potential loop holes.
          However I do think this system will get the best 32 teams in. While 6 wins and in most certainly did not.

          You will see something on Tuesday from "Goosepoop"(if you are familiar) stats guru of michigan high school football.
          He claims SMCC has the most difficult schedule D5-D8 in the state. The reward for that is, you dont have to win as many games as the team with the weakest.
          That does make sense.

• Gary there has to be something CC can do with Navarre field? It’s in horrendous condition. Embarrassing for CC. Do you know of any plans to do anything with it? It’s almost a safety issue. As many as wealthy alums as they have you’d think they could fundraise some money to help?

  • It is owned by the city. CC cannot touch it. We would if we could.

    • Doesn’t SMCC own property?

      • Yes. But I do not think people truly understand how much money that would cost cc

        • Gabriel Richard in Riverview have turf. They match the student demographic of SMCC. In addition, they don't have a Parish. They simply fundraised the money. The turf is used daily by football and soccer in the fall and by soccer, lacrosse and baseball in the spring. They even rent the facility to clubs and universities.

  • I agree. It is not good. It’s embarrassing to me. Everybody wants something done. Even those who lead the team.

    I think Navarre has had its day. I’m not sure where we go from here. I hope something gets done quickly. I will bring it up to the powers that be. I have mentioned it on air at request of those much closer to the team than I.

    **edit** We interview the director of development at halftime this coming Friday. We will ask the question.

• There are plenty of D7 schools in the Catholic League 1 call and SMCC would be in. Easy solution.

  • And why would SMCC want to do that?

    I count 3 in D7. Those 3 schools are located in jackson, Grosse Pointe and Detroit. None of these teams play each other.

    As a matter of fact, I called one of these schools looking for a week 9 game a couple years ago. The AD declined. “We just aren’t on your level”. They ended up playing New Haven and got the W.

• Enrollment is over emphasized. It is harder to beat a well coached team from a school of 300 than a bad team with an enrollment of 1500. The Downriver league is full of big schools with bad teams. We should reward teams because they beat a terrible team that has a large enrollment?

  • There are bonus points given for opponents wins or lack there of. So if you beat a higher division team that has only 1 win, that is factored in. That system is already in place. And takes care of exactly what you are talking about.

    • Gary is right. The system works. That why Huron played Milford. And Crestwood.
      Gary right on this one

      • To Firetip,
        Football is different because not all schools get into playoffs.
        In other sports, everyone gets in the state playoff system.

      • It will be interesting to see if Whitmore Lake makes the playoffs in D5. They have a schedule filled with D 6, 7 and 8 teams. It looks like this will hurt them big time. They are 6-1 and could very well finish 8-1. It looks like they won't make the playoffs at 8-1. They are projected to finish 39th in D5. They currently sit at 38. Whitmore Lake's issue stems from them having a coop. They only have 191 students but coop with a charter school. That moves them to D5. My school played them and they are solid. Certainly the 2nd best team we have seen all year behind undefeated Ecorse. If they lose one of the last 2 games and finish 7-2. I would say they deserve to be out. Finishing 8-1 and not making it would be tough and likely an indictment of the current system.

        • The co-op killed them. Maybe they needed it to field an 11 man team. They made it in with basically the same schedule last year in D8 with a 6-3 record. Bottom line is a D5 team can’t have a schedule with 5 D8 teams.

          Chris, being an AD, what would you do? What could you do to bolster the schedule? I realize the league they are in is the issue. Would you move to a different league? Would you appeal to the MHSAA?

          It’s a terrible situation knowing going into the season, that you cannot make the playoffs.

        • I would drop the coop. Whitmore Lake is well-coached and receives very little benefit from being a coop. They have a legit RB, who is having a big year. I understand why they coop'd after leaving the TCC a while back, but they now have a JV and a decent size program, especially for what amounts to a D8 enrollment. I wouldn't be surprised if the Trojans decide to cast aside the coop in the near future. In fairness, I could be off on the participation numbers that they receive via Charyl Stockwell Academy. Maybe they really need those numbers.

    • It doesn't really take care of what you called "patsies". Look at the Western Wayne. Same thing. Big schools with bad teams.

      6 wins was a better system. I don't care how good you are, or how good Maxpreps rates you, if you can't win 6 games or at least have a winning record, you don't belong in the playoffs.

      • So many people disagreed with this, that the MHSAA scrapped it and came up with a completely different system.

        Personally, I’m fine either way. All in. 6 wins. Point system. Eating contest. Whatever.
        But if I was forced to choose, I would choose the system that allows the best 32 in more often than not. I think that is what we have now. It can be tweaked but I think I like the direction things are headed now more than before.

        • For once, I agree with Gary on this.

        • Lol thanks!

          This isn’t my system. And there is no way anyone can make a perfect system. I’m just explaining it and why it is the way it is.

        • The best 32 teams.

          Huron Fan

        • Why is football different then most other high school sports:
          Basketball, softball, soccer, baseball, etc.
          everyone is in and goes from there.

          It gives some of the teams that may start off iffy a chance, also gives some something to look forward to.

        • It's a no-win situation. Small schools are rewarded for playing big schools. Same big school is trashed for playing "weaker competition". The only solution I can think of to make everyone happy is to get rid of the league structure and go to a division based regular season. D4 teams only play D4 teams, etc. Schedule is issued by MHSAA. No more rivalries, unless said rival is within a hundred or so enrollment.

          Until we go to that, people gonna cry

        • You are always rewarded more for a win vice a loss. But that reward is compared with the rest of your division.

• Your exactly right close, but no cigar. Looks like we could see a rematch in week 10, or even week 11 in a district final. As of right now I believe that district would be Airport at Tecumseh and Chelsea at Riverview. I still have no idea if Chelsea and Tecumseh are really good or just a product of beating up on weak competition in the SEC White.

  • I saw Tecumseh scrimmage new Boston Huron. Their offence is dynamite

    • Yeah I see Tecumseh puts up a ton of points. Probably take the over if they play Airport.

• I heard the double cheeseburgers were overcooked. You didn't miss out on anything Chris...

  • My double cheeseburger was just right, not overcooked at all. Thanks to the FNV crew for recommending the double cheeseburger, totally worth $5.

  • Must be a new cook

• SMCC being a league member should be discussed. 2 wins and ranked in the middle of the pack in d-7?? They are greatly benefiting from being a member. It’s not just football that CC hurts the league in either. They lack facilities in multiple sports including Navarre Field, which if I was Jefferson I’d be asking to play at home because it’s that tore up. There prescience in the HL already hurt Riverview once, it would be a shame if it was continued to be allowed.

  • SMCC should not make post season play with 2 wins. If they do this system is severely flawed.

    • GI step Cousin. Everybody needs to Stop about SMCC.
      SMCC is a good team. If Jondro makes it back this year watch out.

      If huron wouldn’t of scored on that punt that game would have been closer. And SMCC almost pulled off a 60 yard TD but the Huron guy ran him down. If that had been Jondro running no way Huron could would come close to catching him.
      Also there was a few more close calls that huron stopped them from a 50 yard run.

      Sorry I don’t want to play them again.
      They just beat Flatrock.
      They Should be in the playoffs

      Huron fan

    • Let me ask you this.

      Why should division 3-4-5 teams knock a division 7 team out of the division 7 playoffs? Why even have divisions then? Let’s just let everyone in and have 1 big tournament.

      Also. This is very rare. Only a handful of teams would make it in with 2 wins. I don’t think SMCC will wind up with 2 wins anyway.

      For all those so very concerned about SMCC and the flawed system all of a sudden, don’t worry, SMCC won’t be 2-7 in the future very often.

      When SMCC wins, they recruit is the cry. Now that they aren’t winning, they shouldn’t be in the playoffs is the cry. Common theme… grown men crying about a game kids are playing.

      Flat Rock is in with 4 wins. Why? Because they play up divisions. When you play up divisions, it’s difficult to win. Thus. You shouldn’t have to win as much as the D3 and D4 teams, who play down divisions and rack up wins. Makes sense to me.

      • Nobody’s crying Gary. Just stating the obvious. Teams that do not perform shouldn’t make it.

        • Using your word, perform.

          A school with 300 students loses by 3 to a school with 1,500 students. Who performed better? Many would say the the school with 300 students did, even in the loss.

          There must be a system in place which rewards schools that aren’t afraid to schedule either very good teams and/or teams that are divisions higher. The MHSAA realized this. Otherwise, you have what we used to have, a system where everyone runs from the loss, chasing the 6 wins.

          If you wanted to bounce the MHSAA off of Calpreps. CP has SMCC ranked 22nd in D7.

        • So it’s rack up wins vs the patsies again?

          Nobody liked that either.

          If you play up divisions(harder to win) you are rewarded with playoff points per the division you are playing against. If you play down divisions(easier to win the game) you are rewarded with playoff points per the division you play against. Wins are not the be all end all. Because people complained about it.

      • Agree that everyone should qualify for the playoffs unless a school doesn’t want to. That way teams could schedule each other regardless of division. I know a few weeks wouldn’t be very competitive but the teams that might of had injuries early would still have a chance.

      • I seem to remember when SMCC ( then MCC ) cry was those big boy schools were too far to travel to yet today distance is no problem when it comes to playoffs.

    • 6 of 8 teams in the HL can make the playoffs. I think it speaks volumes for the HL.

      • Not really Gary.
        We’ll see how they all do once they’re in.

        • I think they all have a shot at winning 1 game. Of course some might play each other. It’s all about match-ups and who is in your district. View has the best chance of going far.

  • “ There prescience”

  • The same thing can be said regarding enrollment and Riverview. Just on the opposite end. Next year they will again be the highest enrollment and back to D3. The move seems much easier for Riverview than it would be for SMCC. Play the teams in your backyard. Seems like an obvious move. If you don’t want to play CC because they cost you and don’t have a pool, go play the big boys. If you’re not willing to do that, then I wouldn’t complain.

    • If SMCC wants to continue winning championships they SHOULD always be playing the big boys, you know like Lansing CC, schools like that, then that would make sense instead of these catch 22 technicalities like school size, enrollment, etc.

      • I agree. And they do. Every year.

    • Gary’s right on this one. Hurons been playing teams a DIV up.

      Huron step dad